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Post by gsarrow on Feb 8, 2009 0:16:15 GMT -5
This story is to inform everyone that Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) is true, real, and heartbreaking and can happen to everyone breeding Arabians… This is our story. We are very small breeding operation… We have 3 mares and one stallion. We have only had 3 purebred foals ourselves. Our stallion (PS Final Edition) does have 5 total purebred foals. We had a chance to use a nice mare (SPA MZ Katrina) with comparable lines to our stallion so we did. We get her in foal woohoo. Wait a whole year yes I mean a whole year as the mare went over. We get a nice filly (GS Yesha Mishkin). We just love her and her pedigree is nice older lines. So, we breed the mare back. Next year a very nice filly nicer than her older sis at this age (GS Aesha Zaphina). Luckily, it was late in the year so we decided to leave the mare open for 09. We wean the filly at 4 months. Right up till weaning she was fine…. About a week into weaning I noticed she was having small head tremors. I figured she was just having a hard time with weaning, as she was younger than I liked for weaning but mare was getting thin and baby was very healthy. She finely gets over “Where’s the Momma?”. So I put her in with her older sister for the winter. All this time I keep thinking she is not getting better but worse… Now, her symptoms are front legs out, head below withers, her head and upper part of her neck shake all the time and when she moves she is very stiff in the upper part of her front legs. Plus when she gets up from laying down she gets up with her hind first pushes front legs out stands at a bow stance, shaking then slowly brings her front legs one by one into position. Her tremors are so noticeable that non-horse people notice. About this time I see a small article on CA. So I start researching. It all comes back to CA. I contact Cecilia Penedo At UC Davis. She informs me that it is very likely she has CA. In go the tests. Back come the tests. Zaphina is an AFFECTED CA filly. Yesha is a Carrier. Of course our stallion and the mare are carriers. For us it is what to do now? We will have Zaphina put down After I get good pics and videos of her so people can learn this is a very real thing. As per our breeding well I am not sure cause on Jan. 27, 2009 we lost our ½ Arab pinto stallion to colic. I can say this we will test from now on…… I am giving a general background about myself just to inform people that I am not new to horses. I have had horses for over 30 years… We have been breeding for 13 years mostly 1/2s. We show and trail ride. I was in 4-H and have worked on several breeding farms in my years. I also work part time at a vet clinic. I am not looking for sympathy I am just informing people that Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) is true and real. Do your self a favor and your future foals test before you bred this spring… Our pedigrees can be found at www.allbreedpedigree.com/ GS Aesha Zaphina 1 week old. |
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Post by addorra2007 on Feb 10, 2009 13:25:03 GMT -5
Hi Trina,
I'm so sorry about your filly. She sure is a beauty. I have a 23 yo mare by the name of Magic Spirit. Her pedigree is on allbreedpedigree.com. I had her tested back in 08 and she was said to be clear. I have questioned that result many times knowing her history for the last 18 years. She is an accident waiting to happen. Riding her was a disaster and she hurt a good friend of mine. At the time I just chocked it up to being a klutz. When I first learned about CA, from Kris, I started going back on history of one accident after another and came to my own conclusion, regardless of the test results, that Magic Spirit is a mildly affected CA mare. I'm thinking of having her tested again just to be sure. She freaks out big time in storms, doesn't take change real well and is mildly sight impaired or she just can't judge distance. I could be full of it here but it just seems strange that she has all these oddities, including several symptoms of CA and she tested clear. I didn't know her prior to her 5 year old year but according to her owner she had been passed around from one person to the next. I actually got her as a 5 yo without papers. I diligently searched for her last recorded owner. When I sold her to my friend in 1990 she continued the search. She finally got her papers a year later. Prior to her 5 yo year she had impaled herself, run thru fences, bucked people off, refused to go forward under saddle, was always getting into trouble and getting hurt in one way or the other. I'm surprised she has lived this long. My friend owned her for 16 years and finally couldn't afford her and the other two Arabians that I got from her. The minute she got out of the trailer and into the back she ran thru a fence. Only scratches but sheesh. She will live out her days with me. She isn't hurtful to people. She is great with the farrier and vet, etc. She has learned to compensate over the years and to look at her you wouldn't think she had any problems. She has a wide base stance and that is about the only clue. It's very difficult to keep weight on her but I doubt that has anything to do with CA. I will keep you and your filly in my thoughts.
Judy
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Post by szedlisa on Feb 10, 2009 14:46:31 GMT -5
Judy,
Cecilia is redoing some of those earlier pre-diagnostic Marker Scanning Tests and apparently once the genetic diagnostic test is completed will be contacting all those which were deemed 'inconclusive' or 'possible' to redo.
Magic Spirit if I recall correctly, does not have a Lack of Menace (Blink) Responce , does not fall to the side when she rears up, does not have the head intention tremors nor the hypermetric action. The fact that she could be ridden at all makes me think that she is *not* even a slightly CA Affected mare. You might have her vision checked. Faulty vision or even a displaced retina or a dark patch can cause horses to misjudge ditances and where solid objects are. It would also explain the hyper sensitivity.
CA Affected horses have no trouble with vision. They just simply can not register the electrical impulses from eye to brain fast enough to move their third eyelid = Lack of Menace Reflex.
The very fact that she was able to buck a rider off also leads me to think that she is not affected. It takes masses of electrical impulses from brain to muscles to even prepare for a buck and to be able to complete a buck without literally falling to the side is something that an affected horse just can not do.
Lisa
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Post by gsarrow on Feb 11, 2009 0:55:23 GMT -5
Judy,
Thank you for joining and posting your story....Will be interesting to hear the retest results. I must say from all the searching I have done in the last 2 months on CA>< I feel Lisa is very well informed when it comes to this condition,.........I must say I would also look into her vision... We have a mare with vision problems that has done some weird things.. Not to the degree as your mare but it is a thought....
Trina
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Post by fadtastic on Feb 11, 2009 1:10:51 GMT -5
You have done a wonderful job on this site.
You are making a difference.
Hugs,
Kris
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Post by gsarrow on Feb 16, 2009 19:15:54 GMT -5
Thanks,
hopefully we can keep on informing breeders.....
updated list on website. zahina.tripod.com
hoping for spring..
Trina
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Post by addorra2007 on Feb 18, 2009 12:36:25 GMT -5
Judy, Cecilia is redoing some of those earlier pre-diagnostic Marker Scanning Tests and apparently once the genetic diagnostic test is completed will be contacting all those which were deemed 'inconclusive' or 'possible' to redo. Magic Spirit if I recall correctly, does not have a Lack of Menace (Blink) Responce , does not fall to the side when she rears up, does not have the head intention tremors nor the hypermetric action. The fact that she could be ridden at all makes me think that she is *not* even a slightly CA Affected mare. You might have her vision checked. Faulty vision or even a displaced retina or a dark patch can cause horses to misjudge ditances and where solid objects are. It would also explain the hyper sensitivity. CA Affected horses have no trouble with vision. They just simply can not register the electrical impulses from eye to brain fast enough to move their third eyelid = Lack of Menace Reflex. The very fact that she was able to buck a rider off also leads me to think that she is not affected. It takes masses of electrical impulses from brain to muscles to even prepare for a buck and to be able to complete a buck without literally falling to the side is something that an affected horse just can not do. Lisa Hi Lisa! You are probably more correct then I am about Magic Spirit. Lol I am still learning a great deal about this genetic problem. She's probably just a klutz then. Next time I have my vet come out I will have him check her vision. Judy |
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Post by addorra2007 on Feb 18, 2009 12:40:13 GMT -5
Judy, Thank you for joining and posting your story....Will be interesting to hear the retest results. I must say from all the searching I have done in the last 2 months on CA>< I feel Lisa is very well informed when it comes to this condition,.........I must say I would also look into her vision... We have a mare with vision problems that has done some weird things.. Not to the degree as your mare but it is a thought.... Trina Hi Trina, This is a great board and I'm sure there will be much discussion on this subject. This is such a sad thing. I'm glad more and more people are testing. It just shows responsibility. People who ignore this disease and refuse to test are just burying their heads in the sand. Doing that won't make this genetic disease go away!! Judy |
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Post by gsarrow on Feb 18, 2009 23:06:55 GMT -5
Judy,
Thanks for the great comments... I also hope people will stop putting their heads in the sand regarding this "Condition".
FYI - CA is not a disease it is a Condition.. a disease is contagious. CA is a genetic condition...... Don't feel bad I was also calling CA disease.
Trina
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Post by gsarrow on Feb 18, 2009 23:24:51 GMT -5
To All reading this Forum. Welcome and please join and post your comments. Please help spread the word by posting a free texted ad on the horse shopping site you use. This is an example of what I did ATTN Arabian Breeders- There is now a DNA test for the markers for Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) For more information on this Condition of the the Wonderful Arabian Breed visit zaphina.tripod.com/My out look on it is if I did not have an affected Filly I would not have known about this. Before, I was not a member of the Arabian Horse Forums, And there has only been a few articles on this Condition. We need to inform everyone that this now can be prevented starting with the 2010 foal crop.... To all that step up and help Thank You...... CA can know be prevent and should be. Yes this maybe a rare condition by why risk a whole year waiting for foal that may need to be put down. I my opinion that is a waste of a life when it now can be prevented.........Not to mention the money.... Trina |
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Post by szedlisa on Feb 23, 2009 11:08:06 GMT -5
The following question was proposed on another site and this s what my reply was. I would be interested in what you all come up with for ideas. What does everyone think about the notion of compulsory testing for CA and SCID (and any others that may have tests in the future)? Personally, recalling a convesation I had about mandatory Stallion Licensing with Rolf Clark when both of us met up in Germany years ago, he said that mandatory anything simply would not work with the American Arabian breeders/owners....and mentioned national charchacter traits. Beth [from the Arabian Horse Foundation and active member of ESRE] has touched on this subject slightly when she pointed out that she did not think that mandatory testing would fly well. I propose a combination: 1.) All imported horses, regardless of gender required to test for any genetic disorders for which testing is available. These to be placed on AHA registration certificates and datasource. Mandatory disclosure on all imports. 2) All horses, regardless of gender which are still breeding or of breeding age that have been imported in the past required to be tested and stamped on registration certificates and added to datasource. Mandatory disclosure. No stallion certificate to be issued for new get registration until this is completed. No mare /foal registration either. This will include all horses imported en utero. 3) Testing for all other beeding stock to be completed a minimum of one year before first cover. Registration certificates will not be issued for ensuing foal, if testing not completed within time limit.. Stallion and mare registration certificates to be stamped 'tested' for all available tests at time of import. Datasource will be updated to read "Tested SCID", Tested CA" etc. Disclosure of status voluntary. It will be up to the interested party to inquery about the status from the present mare or stallion owner. AHA will hold copy of the original test certifcate result. 4) Progeny of two tested parents will have that information stamped on registration certificate and the Datasource marked "Parents Tested" . Again Disclosure of status is voluntary. AHA to keep copies. Progeny of parents tested clear will not be required to be retested prior to breeding (This is why AHA has to keep on file copies of the original tests) 5) All stallions offering Frozen or fresh Transpoted semen will be required to test for all Genetic Disorders and must show proof of this before stallion TS certificates are issued. Disclosure required to mare owner. Public disclosure voluntary. Registration Certificates to be stamped CA Tested or SCID Tested etc.. Datasource to state Tested for CA or SCID etc. Disclosure of status voluntary. VetGen is not going to release their licensing rights on the SCID test. I believe it was supposed to terminate in 2007. If so, it has obviously been renewed. The CA test is strictly from VGL at UC Davis. I am under the impresion that they intend to keep it there. I do not think that at this time the AHA should include testing as part of their regisration process/price. This should be the breeder's and/or the owner's responcibility and out of pocket cost. By requiring testing completed one year before breeding this enables plenty of time for colts to be gelded, plenty of time for CA to have expresed clinical signs (usually seen by 18 mos to 2 years) and offers the opportunity for the breeder to sell registered youngstock and use the sales gamit of a reduction of sales price for the amount of the tests cost. ( We are all horse traders and gamblers at heart and like a good deal  ) As it is usually the better known name farms and breeders who do import, the mandatory test requirements will just be part of the importation process and cost. This also protects the domestic bred arabian as in those arabians bred within the USA. Colts gelded prior to beeding age will not be tested. Foals from suspected genetic disorder lines will not be tested until one year before breeding. This will take care of scid foals ( dead by 4-5 months) , CA affecteds ( 3-4 mos to 3 years), LFS ( birth to ?), JES ( birth to 2 years), GPT ( birth to ?). Unfortunately there is no age limit on breeding in the USA, unlike Spain where a filly is a filly and a colt is a colt until 4 years old. Special permision is needed to breed prior to that age. ( ** Maybe that should be addresed as well?) WAHO has some countries which already disclose SCID Tested. Status is voluntary. I feel that this is something which each country has to deal with within its own borders. Each country has its own 'character' and some will be more or will be less willing to comply with restrictions and strict guide lines. I would like to point out here something that will become very obvious to those supporting the research for LFS, JES and GPT.: The plea to get horse breeders and owners to send in samples is not all just for testing to find out if a horse has a disorder or not. Not at all. A genetic based DNA test can *not* be accomplished until a minimum number of samples have been supplied. The researchers need samples. The present 250+ (for CA) do not hack it. More like one thousand ( 1000) is a minimum needed. Keep this in mind for LFS,JES and GPT. My reasoning on testing all imports: To protect the smaller breeder/owner, who may not be as financially lucretive as the larger farms. When you consider that imported horses get blood pulled for testing for any infectious diseases anyhow in their preliminary quarentine, it would be a simple enough affair to have tests done for Genetic conditions as well. Yes. Importers are apt to have the $$ to cover these aditional costs or they would not be importing in the first place. That applies to the imported in utero foal as well. It also protects the "smaller " breeder. Every breeder culls his/her stock on a routine basis. This can take form in high priced sales or it can take form in medium to low priced direct purchases/auctions/sherif sales/ rescue organizations...whatever. What may not be used in one breeding program , may turn out to be a foundation in another. All too often the smaller sized breeder will be ending up with a horse which could be a carrier of a possible genetic disorder. If so, then it is they who truely pay the consequences. Take a look at some of these public threads where time and time again it is a smaller breeder looking for more information on what is wrong with my horse, what can I do. Many of these horses were from imports and possibly passed through a number of hands before ending up in their own backyard. Required testing of all imports in the future and all imported horses still breeding with disclosure would protect the smaller breeder. It will not solve the problem , but it would be a step in the right direction. There would be an uproar for sure. Also for sure, owners /breeders with the money to purchase and import will have a good knowledge of genetics (if they dont, their stud managers will). They will know that carriers can be bred selectively and that quality clear progeny can be obtained...thus clearing the bloodline. As you can see, I am pro breeding carriers with responsible selection. We just need the tools to do so.And we need to start somewhere. Just my thoughts and thanks for listening ! Lisa Lisa Goodwin-Campiglio SZED Spanish Arabians |
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Post by gsarrow on Feb 23, 2009 21:27:18 GMT -5
Lisa,
I think you have a great idea......Preventing these awful condition in the future is what needs to be done.
With testing and selective breeding with carriers these genetic conditions can be bred out in time.
Everyone breeding now and in the future can help by testing and breeding selectively. We also need more help on informing the public...
I have contacted a few horse Publications. Only to get we are not interested in this kind of article yet.. head in sand attitude. grrrrrrr.
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Post by szedlisa on Feb 25, 2009 19:53:56 GMT -5
Welcome to the head banging against the wall group !!!
I have been doing it since 2005. I cant ell you how many times I contacted the AHA ( I was no longer a member) and finally managed to find a personal email to Myron Kruse himself. He did reply I must admit but it took another year to get a genetic disorder page put up on the website. The horse.com also was not interested ad they only have been evr snce the owners of MARAJJ made their announcement.
But dont get discouraged Trina...just keep plugging.
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Post by addorra2007 on Mar 17, 2009 23:00:49 GMT -5
Judy, Thanks for the great comments... I also hope people will stop putting their heads in the sand regarding this "Condition". FYI - CA is not a disease it is a Condition.. a disease is contagious. CA is a genetic condition...... Don't feel bad I was also calling CA disease. Trina Ooops, I stand corrected. Lol It shall be known as a condition from now on.  Judy |
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Post by Liz on Aug 15, 2009 21:04:44 GMT -5
Judy,
Regarding Magic Spirit's behavior, etc. If you have not done so, ask around for references and have a reputable equine chiropractor come and check her for subluxations. If a horse has vertebrae out of allignment, especially the atlas at the poll of the neck, it can cause incoordination, inablility to judge distance from objects, pain and stiffness resulting in bad behavior, accidents, falling down, etc. I learned this from an equine herbalist and holistic equine books. Your mare could have hurt herself many years ago and has been living with it all this time. Horses can get out of allignment very easily-just pulling back hard when tied or stepping on a lead rope-jerking the neck hard, rough play with other horses, etc. A couple of chiropractic visits could work wonders. A diagnostic tool called Bio-Scan is also available for locating and treating "hidden" injuries and inflammation. I learned about it from reading a book called Finding the Magic by Dan Sumerel, a trainer. There are Bio-Scan equine practitioners around the country. Maybe you and Magic Spirit will find the magic!
Also, be sure her teeth are in good shape, since you mention weight loss, as dental problems can cause horses to behave badly. There are equine dentists who specialize in really thorough dental care-better than an average annual teeth floating which can miss some things. To put weight back on, try the products called ABC's Plus and Rush Creek 1 to 1 free choice minerals (no, I don't sell them!) They support a healthy digestive tract, improve digestion and balance the minerals in the diet. A holistic vet, Dr. Harmon, with a great website, recommends them for putting weight on older/malnourished horses and you will notice it within a month, also helps improve hoof and coat condition. They are available in many horse supplement catalogs and online.
Let us know if you have any success with these suggestions.
On the philosophical aspects of CA: I hope people are sensible enough to test breeding horses for CA and take advantage of the chance to do something good for the future of Arabian horses that make the world more beautiful and don't deserve to be subjected to this. It's heartbreaking for the people who love them. There is nothing more precious and trusting than an Arabian foal. In this cycle of economic hardship when so many horses are being given away, sold for a fraction of the cost of upkeep, etc., breeding horses is likely to be reduced for a time. Some money should be used now for testing and thus bettering the breed. Maybe horse show organizers could use some proceeds to fund testing for brave souls who want to make a difference. When the next period of economic growth begins, there could be a surge in the value of Arabians that are free of CA. The prices of Arabians in the 1980's were a bit much in my opinion, but people who had the money to spend made the Arabian horse very popular and were serious (and still are) about breeding beautiful, athletic horses. It's a shame that it can backfire on them with something like CA, because it has nothing to do with care, money, diseases, etc. and the whole population of Arabians (and people who love them) suffers. Maybe to a large breeder, losing one foal to CA is not a disaster either emotionally or financially, but to a person with only a few horses it is. There are many valuable champions out there who probably are carriers and people have invested their lives in them. Some bloodlines could even disappear due to not breeding CA carriers-it's very disturbing to consider the implications. Mother Nature has ways of weeding out the weak in a more cruel way than people understand. Instead of ignoring her, people have the opportunity to heed the warning and do something to help. The good thing is that a carrier can still be loved, enjoyed and have a happy life-without producing offspring. I just recently learned about CA from a magazine article. The availability of a test means there is no excuse. Breeders need to be brave and take advantage of the test.
Liz
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